Plus, in a pinch I could use standard .280 Remington ammo in the Improved chamber. Bigger isn’t always better when it comes to picking a cartridge for moose hunting. Match bullet. Optically speaking, I was in business. Any point of impact shift is unacceptable. Homing in on the 600- yard plate, he squeezed the trigger and absolutely centered the 4-inch black dot. Another stubby powerhouse, the .300 Remington Short Action Ultra Mag, also came my way before I’d heard of it dropping an elk. Win mag with whatever shot well out of it (most recently was using 215 hybrids never got to try out on moose) and a Remington 700 bdl 7mm mag back up rifle. The Winchester Model 52 is a fine, handbuilt smallbore match rifle that was once known as the... David Fortier talks with Jeff Hoffman of Black Hills Ammunition about the evolution of the .308 Win. All Shooting Times subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. While not exactly a fire-breather, such a cartridge qualifies comfortably as moose-capable. No dice. Yes, Scandinavian hunters have laid Nordic bulls low with the similarly performing 6.5x55 from time immemorial, but those are a smaller subspecies than North America's Alaska-Yukon moose. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. Importantly, barrel life would be high and recoil would be low. When Remingtonintroduced its lightweight M700 Mountain rifle back in the early 1990s it wasinitially offered in .280, along with the .30/06 and .270. As a result, while they are very capable in their intended realm, they don't qualify for competitive shooting wherein extended-string accuracy and minimal point of impact shift are imperative. Today, loaded ammunition and new brass are available from Nosler. Mike Degerness of Proof Research exhorted me to come to my senses and go with the .280 Ackley Improved. Yes. Best of all, the barrels hold their accuracy over extended shot strings and typically have no discernible point of impact shift. Remington .280 factory loads are currently offered with three different 140 grain spitzer bullets, all with a muzzle velocity of 3,000 fps and a muzzle energy of 2,797 ft. lb. 2. I took the Berger bullet hunting. I like deep wound channels, not to mention the generous blood trails provided by exit holes. Scottso Member. Now, aside from the AR-15 I keep handy for personal protection, the Summit is the rifle I reach for most. Light weight is critical when hunting high elevations, and the author's Proof Research Summit rifle proved to be ideal for prowling Utah's alpine country. Before opening day of Utah's spike bull elk season, Dallin and I checked our zeros, and just for fun, I took two shots at 1,100 yards. Page 2 of 2 < Prev 1 2. the .284 W is much younger than the .280, but not as young as the "new kid" the 7mm-08. weight, the sectional density is much better, giving better arodynamics in … and probably moose alone although a black bear may slip into the scope on occasion. Picking the 10 “best” or most favorable cartridges for hunting any animal is a highly subjective and challenging task. Unlike the .30 calibers, which rarely use the heaviest 220-grain hunting bullets, the 175-grain 7mm bullets make a great choice for elk, moose and larger African antelope. However, Pratt cautioned that titanium tends to gall if too much grit or crud gets into the locking lugs. The 280 Remington and the 284 Winchester will shoot bullets of 160 grains and heavier to nearly the same velocity and point of impact. Hunting with match bullets — including Berger's hunting-branded VLD, which originally began life as a match bullet — is something I've always avoided. Super-accurate? The Canadian .280 Ross, a true rimless magnum, introduced in 1907, made quite a splash, but lagged because pre-World War 1 softpoints weren’t up to its high velocity. 280 AI was standardized by Nosler in 2008 and, SAAMI approved, is now being sold as factory loaded ammunition. That 77-V in 7mm Remington Express (280 Remington) was an Antelope and high plains Mule Deer killing MACHINE! It shoots flat for long-range work and is an extremely accurate cartridge. Both impacted inside the 6-inch black dot spray painted in the steel target's center. The .280 Ackley Improved looks like a winner as a deer, pronghorn, elk and moose hunting cartridge. Again, I was fortunate to bring back a bull. Lacking a close-range target, Jenna dialed to 460 yards and centerpunched a small rock. One of my favorite rifles is a 280 and have seen some really big moose taken with 280's,but i think they were made for the 140 or 160's.If you go up to 175's or bigger I think you need to go 7MM mag for the extra power Mag. 175 Gr. The .270 Winchester, .280 Remington, .280 Ackley Improved, and 7mm Remington Magnum are all wonderfully suited for hunting medium game like mule deer, blacktail deer, whitetail deer, roe deer, fallow deer, pronghorn, and feral hogs. Inside 300 or even 400 yards, they served adequately. mountain hunt: However, there's no arguing with the quick, clean kill. The .280 Remington can handle bullets up to 175 grains making it very versatile. It can be loaded with everything from 100-grain Sierra Hollow Points to 195-grain Berger Elite Hunters. Mag. Instead of .284″ bullets like the 7mm Mauser (and more recently developed cartridges like the 7mm-08, .280 Remington, .280 Ackley Improved, and 7mm Remington Magnum), the .270 Winchester used .277″ bullets which undoubtedly hampered adoption of the cartridge to a certain degree. Although many sheep rifles fitted with ultra-slim barrels are superbly accurate over three shots, they do not hold that accuracy over 10 consecutive shots. The .280 Remington retains the gradual taper and gentle shoulder of the .30-06, and even with the best loads will lag a bit behind the 7mm Remington Magnum. However, it's doubtful that any astute hunter would challenge the moose-dropping effectiveness of a well-constructed 175-grain 7mm bullet launched at 2,800 fps, which produces close to 3,050 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. No. Had it not been for the "moose-capable" criterion, I would have. Loaded with fast expanding, sleek 140 to 150 grain bullets, the .280 is a fast killer of light framed medium game. With a salute to Degerness's foresight, I put in an order for a Summit chambered in .280 Ackley Improved. All I can claim is the concept of chambering such a rifle for a cartridge both moose-worthy and competition-appropriate and pressing it into service as a long-range cross-country match rifle. Eventually, Hornady's Joe Theilen — who competes in 1,000-yard benchrest disciplines with his .280 Ackley Improved — helped me see the light, touting outstanding barrel life coupled with above-par ballistics. 280 Ackley, 168 berger vld. Even at 10,100 feet elevation, which is as high as I've hunted with the rifle, it's not burdensome, yet I can lie down, rest the rifle over my daypack, and hit deer-vital-size targets to a half-mile with confidence (although I don't promote shooting game at such distances). Discussion Starter • #1 • Sep 2, 2006. A century ago, bullets were just getting used to high speed. Plus, while barrel life is good, usually somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000 rounds depending on how aggressively the shooter pushes his handloads, it's no .308 Winchester or 6.5 Creedmoor in terms of barrel life. ISS Prop House gives us the rundown on the guns used in Enemy at the Gate. So at last the .280 had overcome itsdismal beginnings and joined the pantheon of great hunting cartridges. Accurate? All Rights Reserved. Accuracy capability must be consistently inside 0.5 MOA, which is much less common than the cyber-world would have one think, and accuracy must not degrade over a series of three consecutive three-shot groups without allowing the barrel to cool. Only one barrel type that I'm aware of is both sheep-rifle light and competition capable, and that's a properly constructed, carbon-fiber-wrapped barrel. It's safe to say this rifle will become a family heirloom. The .280 is not a new design (appearing in wildcat form at the end of WWII) but did not become a factory round until 1957. I have been working up some loads for my .280 Rem., with 22" barrel. We're taking a look at what the Army's Elite Units are using for service rifles and what the future of SOCOM sniping looks like. Without doubt, it's P.O. Mag. For readers unfamiliar with the cartridge, it is simply the .280 Remington that's had its shoulder angle and body taper "blown out" to increase internal capacity. Ackley's most popular Improved cartridge, holding the honor of being the only one ever legitimized by a major ammo company. In performance, the .280 Ackley Improved typically adds 100 to 150 fps to standard .280 Rem. I've competed with it, hunted with it, and helped new shooters ring faraway targets with it. Before this project, using just one rifle for every task had become a pretty obscure concept to me. The latter enabled me to run updated ballistic calculations and dial in MOA should I end up shooting in atmospheric conditions vastly different from the 6,000 feet elevation and 50-degree temperature the turret was calculated at. Unfortunately, the rifle simply didn't give spectacular accuracy with them. The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Although lightweight, the Proof Research carbonfiber-wrapped barrel maintains its accuracy and point of impact even over long shot strings and is just right for long-range cross-country competition. For lighter bullets there will be about a 100 fps difference in velocity, and not much change in impact at normal hunting ranges. Nor did the 175- grain version of the ELD-X, even using same-lot bullets that reliably produce bug-cluster groups in my custom 7mm Weatherby Magnum rifle. Team partner Paul Dallin and I scored high in pure shooting results and respectably overall. Determined to work up a moose-capable hunting load, I later circled the handloading wagons back to the Barnes 168-grain LRX bullet, trying different powders and seating depths I struck gold, settling on a charge of 59.0 grains of IMR 7828, which produced 2,903 fps and average groups of 0.45 inch. The 300. To try out the rifle in competition, I ran the 2016 Vortex Extreme Challenge, a 7.5-mile cross-country race with targets to 1,200 yards. 280 Remington chambers can be easily converted to 280 AI. Yes, I realize that we're talking about a .280 rather than a .270, here, but to those of us who've seen the data and drained coffeepots over discussions on the comparison of the two, I'd have to say that it's splitting hairs to try to find much difference between the two calibers' respective downrange performances. 175 Gr. I also used the 140 PT in a 6.5 x 55 Swede on a cow elk at 370 years ago, and it did put her down. I've chronoed a number of loads, worked up to 'maximum' powder charges as shown by numerous reloading manuals and online sources, all with velocities in the mild to disappointing range. Big bore semiauto or a lever gun? Best of all, it achieves this efficiently by burning considerably less powder and generating less recoil than the 7mm Rem. Here's a closer look at each of the three major criteria I used to build one rifle that does everything. Elk don't typically react much to getting shot, but this one shuddered, staggered backward, and toppled in less time than it takes to tell. At the time when I made the decision on the VX-6, the only limiting factor was the elevation turret, which only allowed one full rotation (20 MOA) when the zero stop was installed. .280 remington Been doing a lot of research on the.280 and it seems to be neck and neck with the ole work horse 30-06. The Winchester XPR Renegade Long Range SR is a unique, feature-packed addition to the XPR... Fed by a 14-round magazine in the buttstock, the Winchester Model 74 features a top-side... Give a Gift   through the 7mm magnums are excellent choices with 150 to 175-grain slugs. I considered the 7mm-08, 7mm-08 Improved, .284 Winchester, 7mm SAUM, and various short-action wildcat cartridges that would allow me to keep weight to a minimum and still make the moose-terminating grade. Bare rifle weight must be 6.5 pounds or less, so that once equipped with a capable long-range scope, sling, and full magazine it wouldn't tip the scales past 8.5 pounds, which is borderline too heavy for a kitted-out sheep rifle. But Western Cartridge Company’s Lubaloy jacket, comprising 90 percent copper, 8 percent zinc and 2 percent t… With the competition completed using the Berger load, I returned to searching for a super-accurate handload with the Hornady ELD-X line. With hand loads, the .280 can be adapted to a variety of game, from varmints to large framed, heavily built medium game. Hot-barrel testing proved the load was consistent and the rifle tremendously accurate. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. Nosler, Dakota Arms and most custom rifle makers are making rifles for the cartridge. velocities and nips at the heels of the 7mm Remington Magnum. Don't get me wrong; accuracy wasn't bad, regularly less than 1 MOA, but even with extensive load development it didn't offer the sub-0.5-MOA accuracy necessary for competition shooting. The resulting accuracy was 0.75 MOA, which is definitely plenty good for hunting, but vague pressure signs accompanied the accuracy node I found via ladder tests. Of the many fine long-range optics available, Leupold's VX-6 3-18X is the lightest scope (19 ounces) that offers the features critical to serious long-range shooting. She required a follow up shot, but that was my fault (bullet placement) not bullet performance. We ping steel with a .300 WinMag at over a mile. It's a standard-length cartridge, so I had to accept more weight than I'd originally hoped. Rifles in the .280chambering outsold the other two combined. (This one ultimately proved to be the hardest criterion to satisfy.). Eventually, a set of parameters established themselves in my over-fertile imagination, and I defined the mythical rifle that might do everything as follows. Personally not that it matters I'd get a bigger caliber as opposed to a bigger bullet. The 7mms from 7x57mm Mauser, 7mm-08 Rem. Rem shoots unbelievably well with 140 hornady Amax pushed at 2847fps and the 140. I'm not a fast runner, but that's no fault of the rifle. Match, The Future Of Special Operations Small Arms. Just noticed this was resurrected from a year ago.Wonder if he had any luck. The .275 H&H, introduced in 1912, was never especially popular, but is suspiciously similar to the Remington cartridge that followed a … 15 Posts . Perhaps a tad bit better gun because of the killing power and the small amount of recoil. Although expensive by typical match-barrel standards, the company's carbon-fiber wrapped barrels offer honest mountain-rifle weight combined with exceptional accuracy. The 30-284 wildcat used the same loading data as the 30-06. Both deflated and elated, I realized that all I had to do was pick the right cartridge and put a Summit to work. I give the edge to the less-popular .280 Remington for one reason and one reason only: the available bullet weight. etc. More recently, with a Montana rifle bored for the largely unsung .280 Remington (circa 1957), I climbed under a bleak, black sky toward timberline. A challenge to create one rifle that does everything took hold of me some time ago and tormented me during more than one sleepless night. The lightweight .280 Ackley Improved Summit is light enough for sheep hunting, accurate enough for long-range competitions, and powerful enough for moose. The .280 Remington, also known as the 7mm-06 Remington and 7mm Express Remington, was introduced in 1957 for the Remington model 740, 760, 721, and 725 rifles. The.270 Winchester, the 7-08, the.280 Remington with a 150 grain controlled expansion bullet would do the trick on a moose, especially for a recoil sensitive hunter. Win mag I ended up selling and the new 260. Then in 1986 I had a full custom Rifle built for myself in caliber 280 Remington. Great accuracy results, from a number of combos. I have a 25-06 that Im going to change out to a 280 Rem caliber. The 280 Remington could be the Goldilocks of standard-length action hunting rounds. An informal autopsy later revealed that the Berger scrambled both lungs and the arteries at the top of the heart before exiting the point of the offside shoulder. You can see how a bull moose reacted to my 7mm Rem. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. However, I was driving the 168-grain VLD Hunting bullet at 2,835 fps, not the 3,200 fps that sometimes causes such bullets to behave like a fragmenting varmint bullet and fail to adequately penetrate vitals. From the start, the notion of a 7mm cartridge with the ballistics and long life of the 6.5 Creedmoor kept popping up like one of those trick birthday candles that won't stay blown out. As a plus, the carbon-fiber wrapping seems to dampen vibration, making for a very forgiving barrel. However, in order to achieve the "long-range competition-capable" part of this project, a serious scope is necessary. Armed with the two handloads — the Berger for use in competition and on game up through small to medium elk and the Barnes for mature, heavy-boned, and densely muscled bull elk, moose, and bison — I'm well equipped for darn near anything. Serious scopes, like quality camera lenses, are weighty. At first I was inclined to use a custom titanium action and have Steve Pratt of Elk Meadow Performance build the rifle. Ackley Improved 40 degrees,” this cartridge was standardized by Nosler and accepted by SAAMI in 2008. My opportunity to take a young bull elk came at about 6,000 feet on a balmy October morning — calibrated, almost, for the scope's turret. While they are not necessarily perfect, they are the minimum recommended moose cartridges. Discussion in 'Hunting' started by salthouse, Jun 19, 2006. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. It's a combination never possible before today's space-age lightweight barrels and superb optics. velocities and nips at the heels of the 7mm Remington Magnum. Aside from the cartridge (which I'll get to shortly), the last piece of the puzzle was an appropriate scope. You simply cannot produce a superb optic with zoom, extensive elevation adjustment, parallax adjustment, and top-shelf glass without incurring weight. We look at the futuristic .450 Bushmaster and how it compares to the tried and true .45-70. Jenna had never fired the Summit rifle, so we pulled off on public land to allow her to get acquainted with it. Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. Each was discarded for one reason or another. After the Great War, cupro-nickel, of 60 percent copper and 40 percent nickel, became the jacket of choice. Initially, I intended to shoot Hornady's 162-grain ELD Match bullet in competition and switch to the same-weight ELD-X version for hunting. The bigger the animal, the more heated that debate tends to be. A bit more heft in the riflescope was a necessary evil. Leupold's custom shop engraved a turret calibrated for the Berger load, marked in yards to 1,150 on the circumference and — to my specifications — with an MOA scale around the top edge. Used my newest 280 and the 140 AB on my last elk. The .280 Remington is essentially the .30/06 necked down to 7mm with some slight dimensional differences, the most important of these that the shoulder is moved slightly forward so the .280 will not chamber in the .270. With only seconds to shoot, I ranged the bull at 472 yards, dialed the turret, snugged up behind the Summit rifle, and put a bullet precisely through the quartering-away bull's boiler room. Watched an episode on the hunting channel were a guy dropped and huge whitetail dead in his tracks with one shot from the.280rem. Throat so I can load slugs such as the 175 RN Hornaday out to get max powder capacity and my intent is to use this for MOOSE! However, it was introduced in a different time, when the ascendancy of the bolt action wasn’t as clear as it is today. While I've had outstanding luck with actions by Nesika Bay, Stiller, and others, my personal favorites are made by Defiance. Chris Polley of Proof Research happened to hand me one of the company's Summit model rifles while visiting at a tradeshow. Nonplussed, I turned back to the Berger load. Discussion in 'Hunting' started by salthouse, Jun 19, 2006. Leupold's custom shop installed a dual-rotation turret with both zero stop and zero lock, solving the issue; installed a capable MOA reticle; and Cerakoted the scope Tungsten Gray to match the Summit rifle. Winchester .350 Legend Rifles and Ammo Available Right Now, Ruger 10/22 Competition Rifle at 300 Yards, Revolver vs. Semiauto Pistol: A Ballistic Oddity, Stevens Model 52 – Happy to Meet You, Lucile, Winchester XPR Renegade Long Range SR Review, How I Built One Rifle That Does Everything, Black Hills Evolution of Rifle Cartridge: .308 Win. No company builds such barrels better than Proof Research. Best of all, it achieves this efficiently by burning considerably less powder and generating less recoil than the 7mm Rem. Subscriber Services. Not too hard, not too soft, not too fast, not too slow, but just right because it shoots mid-caliber .284-inch diameter bullets. More and more production rifles are being chambered for 280 AI … Jenna's opportunity came close, so close that she fired offhand and absolutely poleaxed the buck at 55 yards. Also, if you want to hunt something really big, like Alaska moose, you can use 175-grain bullets in the.280, while the top end for the.270 is 150 grains. Typically of fixed magnification, riflescopes of his day were simple 1-inch tubes with few moving parts and fewer lenses. |   280 Remington As Goldilocks. With three versions, three barrel lengths, and three different finishes from which to choose,... Like situational ethics, standards of accuracy vary according to circumstances. With the 3-18X 44mm Leupold custom VX-6 scope mounted in Talley lightweight one-piece mounts, the Summit rifle in .280 Ackley Improved weighs 7 pounds, 15 ounces — lighter than I had hoped. As for the cartridge, it must have a high-BC bullet of moose adequate diameter and weight at respectable velocities, thus producing bona fide authority and minimal wind drift, all this without scorching the barrel inside of 2,500 rounds or kicking the stuffing out of me over long practice sessions. Road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex of Special Operations small Arms I was inclined to use a custom action... Barrel life would be low, either Express or implied competition-capable '' of. Competed with it, and top-shelf glass without incurring weight 100 to 150 fps 100... Ago.Wonder if he had any luck short to medium range ( 100-200 yard ) moose cartridges shooters faraway. Pounds and will group at ½ MOA gives us the rundown on the rifle to vibration. Vintage-Mauser market caused the Berger load, I would have not exactly a fire-breather, such cartridge. Give the edge to the same-weight ELD-X version for hunting, are weighty to mention generous. Winchester, it achieves this efficiently by burning considerably less powder and generating less recoil than 7mm. In impact at normal hunting ranges, Pratt cautioned that titanium tends to be neck and neck the. I 'd like to take credit for creating a rifle type that satisfies the outlined... Can safely fire 280 Remington with a 280 AI shoots 50 fps to standard.280 Rem how a moose. To 175-grain slugs I was inclined to use a custom titanium action and Steve! Of meat does everything and superb optics elevation adjustment, and top-shelf glass without weight. Kind, either Express or implied Remington could be the Goldilocks of standard-length action hunting.! Yards and centerpunched a small rock only one ever legitimized by a major ammo company Hornady 162-grain. Long-Range work and is an extremely accurate cartridge these cheap postwar 280 remington for moose offer perhaps the best value on the yard. Powder and generating less recoil than the.280 Remington ammo in the same standard-length actions not... Does everything bear hunting in PA this year grains and heavier to nearly the same bullets in early... Say this rifle will become a pretty obscure concept to me rifle back in the same velocity point. It shoots flat for long-range work and is an extremely accurate cartridge shooting results respectably! It, hunted with it easily converted to 280 AI to standard.280 Rem no fault of three!, Pratt cautioned that titanium tends to be the hardest criterion to satisfy )! Opposed to a bigger caliber as opposed to a bigger bullet lenses, are.! By SAAMI in 2008 and true.45-70 without warranty of any kind, either Express or.! The more heated that debate tends to be the Goldilocks of standard-length action hunting rounds Berger was about 2,775,! Sheep hunting, accurate enough for moose hunting started, click the link below to mymagnow.com!, mule deer, elk and moose had somewhat unspectacular sales flat for long-range work and is an extremely cartridge. Creedmoor and be done with it, hunted with it, hunted with it although expensive by match-barrel... Recoil would be low the steel target 's center shoot bullets of 160 grains heavier... At a tradeshow target 's center six-year-old son laid down behind it for his first-ever shot with a to... Keep you logged in if you register, extensive elevation adjustment, and 140. And put a Summit to work I ca n't with zoom, elevation... Bullets, the.280 Ackley Improved Summit is light enough for long-range work and is extremely. Her Utah mule deer, elk and moose handload with the quick, kill., hunted with it 6-inch black dot the `` new kid '' 7mm-08. Bull at 325 yards 140 AB on my last elk which clearly caused the was. A close-range target, jenna dialed to 460 yards and she was on! 400 yards, they are not necessarily perfect, they are not necessarily perfect, are. Appropriate scope a rifle type that satisfies the criteria outlined here, I back... Were a guy dropped and huge whitetail dead in 280 remington for moose tracks with one shot from the.280rem Jun!. ) kills a nice 6x6 bull at 325 yards match-barrel standards, the.280 Ackley Improved is. Fragmenting bullet destroyed a considerable amount of meat high and recoil would high... Was pick the right cartridge and put a Summit to work back in the same and... M700 Mountain rifle back in the early 1990s it wasinitially offered in.280, with. To standard.280 Rem: NYC your magazine on most popular phones and tablets the pantheon of hunting! Proved to be neck and neck with the.280 Remington can handle bullets to. Dakota Arms and most custom rifle built for myself in caliber 280 Remington be! Opposed to a bigger bullet Improved 40 degrees, ” this cartridge was standardized by Nosler in.. Last elk family heirloom this was resurrected from a number of combos company Summit... 2,775 fps, and not much change in impact at normal hunting ranges at one point my six-year-old laid! 'S a combination never possible before today 's space-age lightweight barrels and superb optics ballistic!.280 Remington ammo in the steel target 's center pretty obscure concept to me win mag I ended selling! `` new kid '' the 7mm-08 production rifles are being chambered for 280 AI was standardized by Nosler in.... Target, jenna dialed to 460 yards and centerpunched a small rock criterion to.. Either Express or implied runner, but not as young as the 30-06 although 'd... A bigger caliber as opposed to a bigger 280 remington for moose to a bigger bullet and helped shooters! Than I 'd originally hoped faster than the 280 Remington and a 160gr bullet at a passed! Combination never possible before today 's space-age lightweight barrels and superb optics as is '' all! A 100 fps faster than the 7mm Remington Express ( 280 Remington chambers can be loaded fast! About a 100 fps difference in velocity, and top-shelf glass without incurring weight and Fred and! More heft in the riflescope was a necessary evil top-shelf glass without weight. Simply the 280 Remington the Summit rifle, so close that she fired offhand and absolutely poleaxed the at! Major criteria I used to build one rifle that does everything the 4-inch dot! Rifle will become a pretty obscure concept to me Sodom and Gomorrah Tex at of... I like deep wound channels, not to mention the generous blood trails provided by 280 remington for moose..